Swami Vivekananda
The Complete Works: Volume VIPage 1 of 1

Conversations and Dialogues

V

(Translated from Bengali)

(From the Diary of a Disciple)

[Place: Alambazar Math. Year: 1897, May.]

It was the 19th Vaishākha (April-May) of the year 1303 B.S. Swamiji had agreed to initiate the disciple today. So, early in the morning, he reached the Alambazar Math. Seeing the disciple Swamiji jocosely said, “Well, you are to be ‘sacrificed’ today, are you not?”

After this remark to the disciple, Swamiji with a smile resumed his talk with others about American subjects. And in due relevancy came along such topics also as how one-pointed in devotion one has to be in order to build up a spiritual life, how firm faith and strong devotion to the Guru have to be kept up, how deep reliance has to be placed on the words of the Guru, and how even one’s life has to be laid down for his sake. Then putting some questions to the disciple, Swamiji began to test his heart: “Well, are you ready to do my bidding to your utmost, whatever it be and whenever it may come? If I ask you to plunge into the Gangā or to jump from the roof of a house, meaning it all for your good, could you do even that without any hesitation? Just think of it even now; otherwise don’t rush forward on the spur of the moment to accept me as your Guru.” And the disciple nodded assent to all questions of the kind.

Swamiji then continued: “The real Guru is he who leads you beyond this Māyā of endless birth and death—who graciously destroys all the griefs and maladies of the soul. The disciple of old used to repair to the hermitage of the Guru, fuel in hand; and the Guru, after ascertaining his competence, would teach him the Vedas after initiation, fastening round his waist the threefold filament of Munja, a kind of grass, as the emblem of his vow to keep his body, mind, and speech in control. With the help of this girdle, the disciples used to tie up their Kaupinas. Later on, the custom of wearing the sacred thread superseded this girdle of Munja grass.”

Disciple: Would you, then, say, sir, that the use of the holy thread we have adopted is not really a Vedic custom?

Swamiji: Nowhere is there mention of thread being so used in the Vedas. The modern author of Smritis, Raghunandana Bhattachārya, also puts it thus: “At this stage,1 the sacrificial girdle should be put on.” Neither in Gobhila’s Grihya-Sutras do we find any mention of the girdle made of thread. In the Shāstras, this first Vedic Samskāra (purification ceremony) before the Guru has been called the Upanayana; but see, to what a sad pass our country has been brought! Straying away from the true path of the Shāstras, the country has been overwhelmed with usages and observances originating in particular localities, or popular opinion, or with the womenfolk! That’s why I ask you to proceed along the path of the Shāstras as in olden times. Have faith within yourselves and thereby bring it back into the country. Plant in your heart the faith of Nachiketā. Even go up to the world of Yama like him. Yes, if to know the secrets of the Ātman, to liberate your soul, to reach the true solution of the mystery of birth and death, you have to go to the very jaws of death and realise the truth thereby, well, go there with an undaunted heart. It is fear alone that is death. You have to go beyond all fear. So from this day be fearless. Off at once, to lay down your life for your own liberation and for the good of others. What good is it carrying along a load of bones and flesh! Initiated into the Mantra of extreme self-sacrifice for the sake of God, go, lay down for others this body of flesh and bones like the Muni Dadhichi! Those alone, say the Shāstras, are the real Gurus, who have studied the Vedas and the Vedānta, who are knowers of the Brahman, who are able to lead others beyond to fearlessness; when such are at hand, get yourself initiated, “no speculation in such a case”. Do you know what has become of this principle now?—“like the blind leading the blind”!

The initiation ceremony was duly gone through in the chapel. After this Swamiji spoke out: “Give me the Guru-dakshinā.”2 The disciple replied, “Oh, what shall I give?” On this Swamiji suggested, “Well, fetch any fruit from the store-room.” So the disciple ran to the store-room and came back into the chapel with ten or twelve lichis. These Swamiji took from his hand and ate them one by one, saying, “Now, your Guru-dakshinā is made.”

A member of the Math, Brahmachāri (now Swami) Shuddhānanda, also had his initiation from Swamiji on this occasion.

Swamiji then had his dinner and went to take a short rest.

After the siesta, he came and sat in the hall of the upper storey. The disciple finding this opportunity asked, “Sir, how and whence came the ideas of virtue and vice?”

Swamiji: It is from the idea of the manifold that these have evolved. The more a man advances towards oneness, the more ideas of “I” and “you” subside, ideas from which all these pairs of opposites such as virtue and vice have originated. When the idea that So-and-so is different from me comes to the mind, all other ideas of distinction begin to manifest, while with the complete realisation of oneness, no more grief or illusion remains for man, “तत्र को मोह: क: शोक एकत्वमनुपश्यत:—For him who sees oneness, where is there any grief or any delusion?” Sin may be said to be the feeling of every kind of weakness. From this weakness spring jealousy, malice, and so forth. Hence weakness is sin. The Self within is always shining forth resplendent. Turning away from that people say “I”, “I”, “I”, with their attention held up by this material body, this queer cage of flesh and bones. This is the root of all weakness. From that habit only, the relative outlook on life has emerged in this world. The absolute Truth lies beyond that duality.

Disciple: Well, is then all this relative experience not true?

Swamiji: As long as the idea of “I” remains, it is true. And the instant the realisation of “I” as the Ātman comes, this world of relative existence becomes false. What people speak of as sin is the result of weakness—is but another form of the egoistic idea, “I am the body”. When the mind gets steadfast in the truth, “I am the Self”, then you go beyond merit and demerit, virtue and vice. Shri Ramakrishna used to say, “When the ‘I’ dies, all trouble is at an end.”

Disciple: Sir, this “I” has a most tenacious life. It is very difficult to kill it.

Swamiji: Yes, in one sense, it is very difficult, but in another sense, it is quite easy. Can you tell me where this “I” exists? How can you speak of anything being killed, which never exists at all? Man only remains hypnotised with the false idea of an ego. When this ghost is off from us, all dreams vanish, and then it is found that the one Self only exists from the highest Being to a blade of grass. This will have to be known, to be realised. All practice or worship is only for taking off this veil. When that will go, you will find that the Sun of Absolute Knowledge is shining in Its own lustre. For the Ātman only is self-luminous and has to be realised by Itself. How can that, which can be experienced only by itself, be known with the help of any other thing? Hence the Shruti says, “विज्ञातारमरे केन विजानीयात्—Well, through what means is that to be known which is the Knower?” Whatever you know, you know through the instrumentality of your mind. But mind is something material. It is active only because there is the pure Self behind it. So, how can you know that Self through your mind? But this only becomes known, after all, that the mind cannot reach the pure Self, no, nor even the intellect. Our relative knowledge ends just there. Then, when the mind is free from activity or functioning, it vanishes, and the Self is revealed. This state has been described by the commentator Shankara as अपरोक्षानुभूति: or supersensuous perception.

Disciple: But, sir, the mind itself is the “I”. If that mind is gone, then the “I” also cannot remain.

Swamiji: Yes, the state that comes then is the real nature of the ego. The “I” that remains then is omnipresent, all-pervading, the Self of all. Just as the Ghatākāsha, when the jar is broken, becomes the Mahākāsha,3 for with the destruction of the jar the enclosed space is not destroyed. The puny “I” which you were thinking of as confined in the body, becomes spread out and is thus realised in the form of the all-pervading “I” or the Self. Hence what matters it to the real “I” or the Self, whether the mind remains or is destroyed? What I say you will realise in course of time. “कालेनात्मनि विन्दति—It is realised within oneself in due time.” As you go on with Shravana and Manana (proper hearing and proper thinking), you will fully understand it in due time and then you will go beyond mind. Then there will be no room for any such question.

Hearing all this, the disciple remained quiet on his seat, and Swamiji, as he gently smoked, continued: “How many Shāstras have been written to explain this simple thing, and yet men fail to understand it! How they are wasting this precious human life on the fleeting pleasures of some silver coins and the frail beauty of women! Wonderful is the influence of Mahāmāyā (Divine Illusion)! Mother! Oh Mother!”

Notes

  1. Referring, that is to say, to some steps in the Vedic ceremony of a Brahmin’s initiation. ↩
  2. The special gift which a disciple has to make to his Guru as the symbol of the mutual relation being consummated. ↩
  3. Ghatākāsha and Mahākāsha are technical terms in Vedānta, meaning the space enclosed by the jar and the omnipresent. The two are one and the same, only the former is limited by the Upādhi (adjunct) of the Ghata or jar. ↩
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Contents

Lectures and Discourses
  1. The Methods and Purpose of Religion
  2. The Nature of the Soul and its Goal
  3. The Importance of Psychology
  4. Nature and Man
  5. Concentration and Breathing
  6. Introduction to Jnana-Yoga
  7. The Vedanta Philosophy and Christianity
  8. Worshipper and Worshipped
  9. Formal Worship
  10. Divine Love
Notes of Class Talks and Lectures
  1. Religion And Science
  2. Religion Is Realisation
  3. Religion Is Self-Abnegation
  4. Unselfish Work Is True Renunciation
  5. Freedom Of The Self
  6. Notes On Vedanta
  7. Hindu And Greek
  8. Thoughts On The Vedas And Upanishads
  9. On Raja-Yoga
  10. On Bhakti-Yoga
  11. On Jnana-Yoga
  12. The Reality And Shadow
  13. How To Become Free
  14. Soul And God
  15. The Goal
  16. On Proof Of Religion
  17. The Design Theory
  18. Spirit And Nature
  19. The Practice Of Religion
  20. Fragmentary Notes On The Ramayana
  21. Notes Taken Down In Madras, 1892-93
  22. Concentration
  23. The Power Of The Mind
  24. Lessons On Raja-Yoga
  25. Lessons On Bhakti-Yoga
  26. Mother-Worship
  27. Narada-Bhakti-Sutras
Writings: Prose and Poems
  1. Historical Evolution of India
  2. The Story of the Boy Gopala
  3. My Play Is Done
  4. The Cup
  5. A Benediction
  6. The Hymn of Creation
  7. On the Sea's Bosom
  8. Hinduism and Shri Ramakrishna
  9. The Bengali Language
  10. Matter for Serious Thought
  11. Shiva's Demon
Epistles: Second Series
  1. 1. Leaving Ayodhya I have reached the holy Vrindavan
  2. 2. Twice did Gangādhar ascend up to Tibet and Bhutan.
  3. 3. A full measure of proficiency in the Vedic language is impossible without first mastering Pānini’s grammar
  4. 4. He must be made of stone whose mind does not melt at the sight of Kashi and its Lord!
  5. 5. You have hit Ramakrishna in the right point.
  6. 6. My health is passable, but the state of mind is terrible!
  7. 7. One has to suffer at times for holding in one’s brain novel views of all sorts.
  8. 8. One may attain to the knowledge of Brahman without having studied the ceremonial parts of the Vedas.
  9. 9. For all time my head shall bend low in reverence wherever I see greatness, broadness of heart, and holiness
  10. 10. When a pitcher is being filled (by immersion), it gurgles, but when full, it is noiseless
  11. 11. Gangādhar’s blood won’t cool down before seeing Lhasa.
  12. 12. I can’t appreciate your citing Spencer’s parody on the German transcendentalists
  13. 13. My resolve is something like “either to lay down my life or realise my ideal”
  14. 14. Please inquire and inform me whether the Kumbha fair this year is going to be held at Hardwar or not.
  15. 15. “Lord have mercy”, is all right, but He helps him who helps himself.
  16. 16. In this land of Bhagavān Shuka’s birth, renunciation is looked down upon as madness and sin!
  17. 17. It is so very difficult to meet the Bābāji.
  18. 18. Unless one is face to face with the life of such men, faith in the scriptures does not grow in all its real integrity.
  19. 19. No trouble taken for the sake of such a great soul can ever go unrewarded.
  20. 20. Such amazing endurance and humility I have never seen
  21. 21. I am greatly suffering from lumbago.
  22. 22. The sons of my Master are indeed the great objects of my service
  23. 23. what the Lord Buddha has designated as Prajnāpāra—the transcendental—if such there be, I want that alone.
  24. 24. The mind does not find rest here any longer
  25. 25. The great conclusion is that Ramakrishna has no peer
  26. 26. I too shall be off to Prayag.
  27. 27. My motto is to learn whatever good things I may come across anywhere.
  28. 28. Gagan Bābu with whom I am putting up, is an exceedingly courteous, noble, and generous-minded man.
  29. 29. Bless me that I may have the most unflinching patience and perseverance.
  30. 30. I shall be drawn up to the hills by the attraction I have for Hrishikesh
  31. 31. If ever I get this true renunciation, I shall let you know
  32. 32. Do please pray for me to Vishvanātha that He may grant me strength
  33. 33. I am Ramakrishna’s slave, having laid my body at his feet “with Til and Tulasi leaves”
  34. 34. We should go on striving and striving even unto death.
  35. 35. Try to be pure and unselfish­—that is the whole of religion.
  36. 36. My children, the secret of religion lies not in theories but in practice.
  37. 37. You must go on with your Japa whatever direction the mind takes.
  38. 38. For us is only submission, calm and perfect.
  39. 39. Please read the Gitā every day to the best of your opportunity.
  40. 40. American women befriended me, gave me shelter and food, took me to their homes and treated me as their own son, their own brother.
  41. 41. The whole American nation loves and respects me, pays my expenses, and reveres me as a Guru.
  42. 42. She wants to work apart from all religions to ameliorate the conditions of women
  43. 43. May even the dust of the world never touch you
  44. 44. Stick to God! Who cares what comes to the body or to anything else!
  45. 45. It won’t do merely to call Shri Ramakrishna an Incarnation, you must manifest power.
  46. 46. A Hindu son never lends to his mother, but the mother has every right over the son
  47. 47. Think all of you that you are the infinitely powerful Ātman, and see what strength comes out.
  48. 48. I can bundle myself up anywhere and feel quite comfortable
  49. 49. Courage! Everything will come about by degrees.
  50. 50. The American women, as everywhere, came to my rescue
  51. 51. Everything will come right if you are pure and sincere
  52. 52. Are you progressing morally, spiritually, and in your worldly affairs?
  53. 53. Honesty is the best policy, and a virtuous man must gain in the end
  54. 54. I want no name—I want to be a voice without a form.
  55. 55. We must work, and this cannot be done by merely sitting idle.
  56. 56. This is a place for action, not enjoyment, and everyone will go home when his task is done
  57. 57. In New York I find more men interested in religion than in any other city
  58. 58. Start centres at different places.
  59. 59. When it comes to doing something I want, they are nowhere.
  60. 60. An immediate work at hand should always have the preference
  61. 61. We must plunge heart and soul and body into the work
  62. 62. In the tiger and in the lamb, in the saint and sinner all He!
  63. 63. See that cooking and drinking water be filtered
  64. 64. Always evil comes out of laziness
  65. 65. This gentleman is the chief citizen of Madras and a Judge of the Supreme Court
  66. 66. Though the attendance is large, it does not even pay enough to cover the rent
  67. 67. I go into the forest alone and read my Gitā and am quite happy
  68. 68. All is for good. All conjunctions are for subsequent disjunction.
  69. 69. To me, the thought of oneself as low and humble is a sin and ignorance
  70. 70. I got up an idea of making books out of the bark
  71. 71. From the day Shri Ramakrishna was born dates the growth of modern India and of the Golden Age.
  72. 72. The first requisite for organisation is obedience.
  73. 73. Know partiality to be the chief cause of all evil
  74. 74. Wherever you can, open a centre.
  75. 75. In this Satya-Yuga the tidal wave of Shri Ramakrishna’s Love has unified all.
  76. 76. Why not wear one’s country-dress, as befits gentlemen?
  77. 77. Why look up to men for approbation, look up to God!
  78. 78. Those who are protected by the Lord must be above fear.
  79. 79. Purity, perseverance, and energy—these three I want
  80. 80. “Avoid not and seek not—wait for what the Lord sends”, is my motto.
  81. 81. When an Englishman takes up a thing, he goes to its very depths.
  82. 82. All great things must of necessity be slow.
  83. 83. I trust those that will not desert me in prosperity and adversity alike.
  84. 84. I am translating a little book on Bhakti with Mr. Sturdy with copious commentaries
  85. 85. Householders of poor means take to various tricks to supply their wants.
  86. 86. I sail by the Britannic on Wednesday, the 27th.
  87. 87. Even if the nation is spiritually poor, it aspires for physical freedom.
  88. 88. The supply must follow the demand, and the demand alone.
  89. 89. Will be glad to lecture before the Harvard Philosophical Club as requested.
  90. 90. Higher direction and not destruction is the law.
  91. 91. Oh, the grief! If I could get two or three like me, I could have left the world convulsed.
  92. 92. Want of sympathy and lack of energy are at the root of all misery
  93. 93. I have worked my best. If there is any seed of truth in it, it will come to life.
  94. 94. What you need is only obedience
  95. 95. I am suffering from slight fever the last two days
  96. 96. I like very much to foster this sort of adventurous spirit among my countrymen
  97. 97. The masses will always have the person, the higher ones the principle; we want both
  98. 98. Above all, his reverence for Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is extreme
  99. 99. In America alone there is that something in the air which brings out whatever is best in every one
  100. 100. We want organisation. Organisation is power, and the secret of this is obedience.
  101. 101. Send Kāli to England as soon as you get this letter.
  102. 102. Beyond, beyond reason and learning and talking is the feeling, the “Love”, the “Beloved”
  103. 103. The English people are very generous.
  104. 104. I want to forget the world entirely at least for the next two months and practise hard. That is my rest.
  105. 105. I want to start a Math at Almora or near Almora rather.
  106. 106. It is for the sinful that the Lord manifests Himself specially, not so much for the virtuous.
  107. 107. Who works? Whose work? There is no world. It is God Himself. In delusion we call it world.
  108. 108. Perfect life is a contradiction in terms
  109. 109. My natural tendency is to go into a cave and be quiet
  110. 110. Great freedom with great law-abidingness.
  111. 111. Specification of work is absolutely necessary. Our special branch is to preach Vedānta.
  112. 112. I am a socialist not because I think it is a perfect system, but half a loaf is better than no bread.
  113. 113. The first edition of Rāja-Yoga is sold out
  114. 114. We want a whole hill, with a view of the snow-range, all to ourselves
  115. 115. Can anything be done unless everybody exerts himself to his utmost?
  116. 116. I am going to start a centre in Calcutta and another in the Himalayas
  117. 117. I intend to return to the U.S. and to Europe thence in about a year.
  118. 118. My idea is to start on a very small scale. I do not know anything yet.
  119. 119. The mind is more powerful than the body.
  120. 120. Tomorrow we reach Rome
  121. 121. My journey has been a huge procession—crowds of people, illuminations, addresses, etc.,
  122. 122. The more the opposition, the more the demon in me is roused.
  123. 123. On metaphysical lines no nation on earth can hold a candle to the Hindus
  124. 124. All caste either on the principle of birth or of merit is bondage.
  125. 125. In all the Vedas illumination alone is the concern
  126. 126. Even my wicked deeds were not for self.
  127. 127. We have been able fearlessly to preach our Vedantic doctrines both in India and England.
  128. 128. Work, work, work, even unto death!
  129. 129. Buy all the good scientific books that you can have in Bengali, and have them read.
  130. 130. Let Memorial Halls and things of that kind go to the dogs.
  131. 131. Never worry about money.
  132. 132. Do not mix in politics etc., nor have any connection with them.
  133. 133. You ought to know from the first that India is the dirtiest and unhealthiest hole in the world
  134. 134. This Kashmir is a veritable heaven on earth.
  135. 135. What one does has no destruction—no, never.
  136. 136. In our country we at present need manhood and kindness.
  137. 137. Victory to the Lord!—To work! To work!
  138. 138. Come out, man! No sleeping all life; time is flying.
  139. 139. Duty must be done first.
  140. 140. Any least trouble undergone, is bound to produce its excellent results.
  141. 141. Be of good cheer. “Never a worker of good came to grief.”
  142. 142. Hinduism and Islam—Vedānta brain and Islam body—is the only hope.
  143. 143. Things go on all right whether we lend them our helping hands or not.
  144. 144. The Mother is our guide and whatever happens or will happen is under Her ordination.
  145. 145. You are appointed by the Mother to watch over my life
  146. 146. Two years of physical suffering have taken away twenty years of my life.
  147. 147. Mother knows best, that is all about me.
  148. 148. Suffering is the lot of the world’s best and bravest
  149. 149. This sort of nervous body is just the instrument to play great music at times
  150. 150. If the Lord has made me His hack to work and die on the streets, let Him have it.
  151. 151. Mother is working it up. She cannot let me go before Her work is done
  152. 152. We are all sacrifices—each in his own way.
  153. 153. One road is quite as good as the other.
  154. 154. The more heart you will be able to manifest, the greater will be the victory you achieve
  155. 155. To become fearless, to be daring, to be careless of everything!
  156. 156. My dreams are breaking. Om Tat Sat!
  157. 157. The seed must die underground to come up as the tree
  158. 158. I have bundled my things and am waiting for the great deliverer.
  159. 159. Mother seems to be kind again and the wheel is slowly rising up.
  160. 160. Mother knows, as I always say. Pray to Mother.
  161. 161. You must know once for all, I am born without jealousy
  162. 162. Who cares for great things? Why not do small things as well?
  163. 163. “Chutney is the thing”, said a voice near the door.
  164. 164. I am surely coming this evening and of course
  165. 165. Two great Englishmen gave up their lives for us—us the Hindus.
  166. 166. Everything is green and gold, and the grass is like velvet
  167. 167. Occasion never found me low yet; Mother will not make me now depressed.
  168. 168. We all work by bits, that is to say, in this cause.
Conversations and Dialogues
  1. I
  2. II
  3. III
  4. IV
  5. V
  6. VI
  7. VII
  8. VIII
  9. IX
  10. X
  11. XI
  12. XII