Swami Vivekananda
The Complete Works: Volume VPage 1 of 1

Conversations and Dialogues

XII

(Translated from Bengali )

RECONCILIATION OF JNANA AND BHAKTI — SAT-CHIT-ANANDA — HOW SECTARIANISM ORIGINATES — BRING IN SHRADDHA AND THE WORSHIP OF SHAKTI AND AVATARAS — THE IDEAL OF THE HERO WE WANT NOW, NOT THE MADHURA-BHAVA — SHRI RAMAKRISHNA — AVATARAS

Disciple: Pray, Swamiji, how can Jnāna and Bhakti be reconciled? We see the followers of the path of devotion (Bhaktas) close their ears at the name of Shankara, and again, the followers of the path of knowledge (Jnānis) call the Bhaktas fanatics, seeing them weep in torrents, or sing and dance in ecstasy, in the name of the Lord.

Swamiji: The thing is, all this conflict is in the preliminary (preparatory) stages of Jnāna and Bhakti. Have you not heard Shri Ramakrishna’s story about Shiva’s demons and Rāma’s monkeys?1

Disciple: Yes, sir, I have.

Swamiji: But there is no difference between the supreme Bhakti and the supreme Jnāna. The supreme Bhakti is to realise God as the form of Prema (love) itself. If you see the loving form of God manifest everywhere and in everything, how can you hate or injure others? That realisation of love can never come so long as there is the least desire in the heart, or what Shri Ramakrishna used to say, attachment for Kāma-Kānchana (sense-pleasure and wealth). In the perfect realisation of love, even the consciousness of one’s own body does not exist. Also, the supreme Jnāna is to realise the oneness everywhere, to see one’s own self as the Self in everything. That too cannot come so long as there is the least consciousness of the ego (Aham).

Disciple: Then what you call love is the same as supreme knowledge?

Swamiji: Exactly so. Realisation of love comes to none unless one becomes a perfect Jnani. Does not the Vedānta say that Brahman is Sat-Chit-Ānanda—the absolute Existence-Knowledge-Bliss?

Disciple: Yes, sir.

Swamiji: The phrase Sat-Chit-Ānanda means—Sat, i.e. existence, Chit, i.e. consciousness or knowledge, and Ānanda, i.e. bliss which is the same as love. There is no controversy between the Bhakta and the Jnani regarding the Sat aspect of Brahman. Only, the Jnanis lay greater stress on His aspect of Chit or knowledge, while the Bhaktas keep the aspect of Ānanda or love more in view. But no sooner is the essence of Chit realised than the essence of Ānanda is also realised. Because what is Chit is verily the same as Ānanda.

Disciple: Why then is so much sectarianism prevalent in India? And why is there so much controversy between the scriptures on Bhakti and Jnāna?

Swamiji: The thing is, all this waging of war and controversy is concerning the preliminary ideals, i.e. those ideals which men take up to attain the real Jnāna or real Bhakti. But which do you think is the higher—the end or the means? Surely, the means can never be higher than the end, because the means to realise the same end must be numerous, as they vary according to the temperament or mental capacities of individual followers. The counting of beads, meditation, worship, offering oblations in the sacred fire—all these and such other things are the limbs of religion; they are but means; and to attain to supreme devotion (Parā-Bhakti) or to the highest realisation of Brahman is the pre-eminent end. If you look a little deeper, you will understand what they are fighting about. One says, “If you pray to God facing the East, then you will reach Him.” “No,” says another, “you will have to sit facing the West, and then only you will see Him.” Perhaps someone realised God in meditation, ages ago, by sitting with his face to the East, and his disciples at once began to preach this attitude, asserting that none can ever see God unless he assumes this position. Another party comes forward and inquires, “How is that? Such and such a person realised God while facing the West, and we have seen this ourselves.” In this way all these sects have originated. Someone might have attained supreme devotion by repeating the name of the Lord as Hari, and at once it entered into the composition of the Shāstra as:

हरेर्नाम हरेर्नाम हरेर्नामैव केवलम्।
कलौ नास्त्येव नास्त्येव नास्त्येव गतिरन्यथा ॥

“The name of the Lord Hari, the name of the Lord Hari, the name of the Lord Hari alone. Verily, there is no other, no other, no other path than this in the age of Kali.”

Someone, again, let us suppose, might have attained perfection with the name of Allah, and immediately another creed originated by him began to spread, and so on. But we have to see what is the end to which all these forms of worship and other religious practices are intended to lead. The end is Shraddhā. We have not any synonym in our Bengali language to express the Sanskrit word Shraddhā. The (Katha) Upanishad says that Shraddhā entered into the heart of Nachiketā. Even with the word Ekāgratā (one-pointedness) we cannot express the whole significance of the word Shraddhā. The word Ekāgranishthā (one-pointed devotion) conveys, to a certain extent, the meaning of the word Shraddhā. If you meditate on any truth with steadfast devotion and concentration, you will see that the mind is more and more tending onwards to Oneness, i.e. taking you towards the realisation of the absolute Existence-Knowledge-Bliss. The scriptures on Bhakti or Jnāna give special advice to men to take up in life the one or the other of such Nishthās (scrupulous persistence) and make it their own. With the lapse of ages, these great truths become distorted and gradually transform themselves into Deshāchāras or the prevailing customs of a country. It has happened, not only in India, but in every nation and every society in the world. And the common people, lacking in discrimination, make these the bone of contention and fight among themselves. They have lost sight of the end, and hence sectarianism, quarrels, and fights continue.

Disciple: What then is the saving means, Swamiji?

Swamiji: That true Shraddhā, as of old, has to be brought back again. The weeds have to be taken up by the roots. In every faith and in every path, there are, no doubt, truths which transcend time and space, but a good deal of rubbish has accumulated over them. This has to be cleared away, and the true eternal principles have to be held before the people; and then only, our religion and our country will be really benefited.

Disciple: How will that be effected?

Swamiji: Why, first of all, we have to introduce the worship of the great saints. Those great-souled ones who have realised the eternal truths are to be presented before the people as the ideas to be followed; as in the case of India—Shri Rāmachandra, Shri Krishna, Mahāvira, and Shri Ramakrishna, among others. Can you bring in the worship of Shri Rāmachandra and Mahāvira in this country? Keep aside for the present the Vrindāvan aspect of Shri Krishna, and spread far and wide the worship of Shri Krishna roaring the Gitā out, with the voice of a lion. And bring into daily use the worship of Shakti—the divine Mother, the source of all power.

Disciple: Is the divine play of Shri Krishna with the Gopis of Vrindāvan not good, then?

Swamiji: Under the present circumstances, that worship is of no good to you. Playing on the flute and so on will not regenerate the country. We now mostly need the ideal of a hero with the tremendous spirit of Rajas thrilling through his veins from head to foot—the hero who will dare and die to know the Truth—the hero whose armour is renunciation, whose sword is wisdom. We want now the spirit of the brave warrior in the battlefield of life, and not of the wooing lover who looks upon life as a pleasure-garden!

Disciple: Is then the path of love, as depicted in the ideal of the Gopis, false?

Swamiji: Who says so? Not I! That is a very superior form of worship (Sādhanā). In this age of tremendous attachment to sense-pleasure and wealth, very few are able even to comprehend those higher ideals.

Disciple: Then are not those who are worshipping God as husband or lover (Madhura) following the proper path?

Swamiji: I dare say not. There may be a few honourable exceptions among them, but know, that the greater part of them are possessed of dark Tāmasika nature. Most of them are full of morbidity and affected with exceptional weakness. The country must be raised. The worship of Mahāvira must be introduced; the Shakti-pujā must form a part of our daily practice; Shri Rāmachandra must be worshipped in every home. Therein lies your welfare, therein lies the good of the country—there is no other way.

Disciple: But I have heard that Bhagavān Shri Ramakrishna used to sing the name of God very much?

Swamiji: Quite so, but his was a different case. What comparison can there be between him and ordinary men? He practised in his life all the different ideals of religion to show that each of them leads but to the One Truth. Shall you or I ever be able to do all that he has done? None of us has understood him fully. So, I do not venture to speak about him anywhere and everywhere. He only knows what he himself really was; his frame was a human one only, but everything else about him was entirely different from others.

Disciple: Do you, may I ask, believe him to be an Avatāra (Incarnation of God)?

Swamiji: Tell me first—what do you mean by an Avatāra?

Disciple: Why, I mean one like Shri Rāmachandra, Shri Krishna, Shri Gaurānga, Buddha, Jesus, and others.

Swamiji: I know Bhagavān Shri Ramakrishna to be even greater than those you have just named. What to speak of believing, which is a petty thing I know ! Let us, however, drop the subject now; more of it another time.

After a pause Swamiji continued: To re-establish the Dharma, there come Mahāpurushas (great teachers of humanity), suited to the needs of the times and society. Call them what you will—either Mahāpurushas or Avatāras—it matters little. They reveal, each in his life, the ideal. Then, by degrees, shapes are moulded in their matrices—MEN are made! Gradually, sects arise and spread. As time goes on, these sects degenerate, and similar reformers come again. This has been the law flowing in uninterrupted succession, like a current, down the ages.

Disciple: Why do you not preach Shri Ramakrishna as an Avatāra? You have, indeed, power, eloquence, and everything else needed to do it.

Swamiji: Truly, I tell you, I have understood him very little. He appears to me to have been so great that, whenever I have to speak anything of him, I am afraid lest I ignore or explain away the truth, lest my little power does not suffice, lest in trying to extol him I present his picture by painting him according to my lights and belittle him thereby!

Disciple: But many are now preaching him as an Avatāra.

Swamiji: Let them do so if they like. They are doing it in the light in which they have understood him. You too can go and do the same, if you have understood him.

Disciple: I cannot even grasp you, what to say of Shri Ramakrishna! I should consider myself blessed in this life if I get a little of your grace.

Notes

  1. There was once a fight between Shiva and Rāma. Shiva was the Guru of Rāma, and Rāma was the Guru of Shiva. They fought but became friendly again. But there was no end to the quarrels and wranglings between the demons of Shiva and the monkeys of Rāma! ↩
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Contents

Epistles: First Series
  1. NOTE
  2. Be moral. Be brave.
  3. We must travel, we must go to foreign parts
  4. Calm and silent and steady work
  5. Feel for the miserable and look up for help — it shall come
  6. The Hindu must not give up his religion
  7. Do you know who is the real “Shakti-worshipper”?
  8. My whole ambition in life is to set in motion a machinery
  9. Up, up, my boys, we are sure to win!
  10. Whenever anyone of you is sick
  11. Appreciation or no appreciation, sleep not, slacken not.
  12. Fight on bravely! Life is short! Give it up to a great cause
  13. XII
  14. You will have to take charge of the whole movement, not as a leader, but as a servant
  15. Asians are the most charitable race in the world
  16. Wait, have patience, everything will come right in time
  17. XVI
  18. I care only for the Spirit—when that is right everything will be righted by itself
  19. Hope and do not despair
  20. XIX
  21. XX
  22. Look not at me, look to yourselves
  23. The life of Shri Ramakrishna was an extraordinary searchlight
  24. Preach Shri Ramakrishna. Pass the Cup that has satisfied your thirst. Preach Bhakti
  25. Remember that "Never one meets with evil who tries to do good"
  26. It is jealousy and want of combination which cause and perpetuate slavery
  27. XXVI
  28. Go to work, the rest will come
  29. I owe much to the Hale family
  30. Even after death I shall work for the good of the world
  31. Work for the idea, not the person
  32. 31. Coming and going is all pure delusion. The soul never comes nor goes
  33. 32. One cannot serve the God of Truth who leans upon somebody
  34. 33. Do not lose heart, do not lose faith in your Guru, do not lose faith in God
  35. 34. All’s well that ends well
  36. 35. Do not figure out big plans at first, but begin slowly, feel your ground, and proceed up and up
  37. 36. Hoping you the best dreams (for that is the only way to be happy)
  38. 37. Be cheerful.… Hold on to your own idea. Be the servant of all.
  39. 38. Love makes the whole universe as one's own home.
  40. 39. Be the servant of all, and do not try in the least to govern others.
  41. 40. Men are more valuable than all the wealth of the world.
  42. 41. A pestle must pound even if it goes to heaven.
  43. 42. Work on, my boy. Rome was not built in a day.
  44. 43. My disciples must not be cowards.
  45. 44. I wish you a life that will be like a torch to generations to come
  46. 45. May the Lord bless you and yours for ever and ever
  47. 46. May all happiness be yours for ever
  48. 47. Each work has to pass through these stages—ridicule, opposition, and then acceptance.
  49. 48. It is unnecessary to repeat my everlasting love and blessings for you and yours.
  50. 49. Truth is my God, the universe my country
  51. 50. Man is the greatest of all beings.
  52. 51. E. T. Sturdy
  53. 52. God and truth are the only politics in the world, everything else is trash.
  54. 53. So long as you are pure, and true to your principles, you will never fail.
  55. 54. Any other Hindu would have died if he had to work as hard as I have to.
  56. 55. Be perfectly pure in money dealings.
  57. 56. The whole life is a succession of dreams.
  58. 57. I am working a good deal now upon the cosmology and eschatology of the Vedānta
  59. 58. The dry, abstract Advaita must become living
  60. 59. The greatness of a teacher consists in the simplicity of his language.
  61. 60. So long as you have faith in your Guru, nothing will be able to obstruct your way.
  62. 61. Be obedient and eternally faithful to the cause of truth, humanity, and your country
  63. 62. The lotus is a symbol of regeneration.
  64. 63. Nothing can resist truth.
  65. 64. Work on! Hold on! Be brave! Dare anything and everything!
  66. 65. E.T. Sturdy
  67. 66. Work unto death—I am with you, and when I am gone, my spirit will work with you.
  68. 67. Work on with all energy.
  69. 68. I wish at least that a million Hindus had travelled all over the world!
  70. 69. We Hindus are so slow that when we have done a work, the opportunity has already passed away, and thus we are the losers.
  71. 70. We must remember that gratitude and hospitality are the peculiar characteristics of Indian humanity
  72. 71. Goodwin is an Englishman, through whose shorthand notes it has been possible for the pamphlets to be published.
  73. 72. You must not forget that my interests are international and not Indian alone
  74. 73. We have to learn that evil is destroyed by the growth of good.
  75. 74. Good motives, sincerity, and infinite love can conquer the world.
  76. 75. In Darjeeling I always felt that I was not the same man. Here I feel that I have no disease whatsoever
  77. 76. The word Vedas includes the three parts, the Samhitās, the Brāhmanas, and the Upanishads
  78. 77. For us, it is not to pity but to serve. Ours is not the feeling of compassion but of love
  79. 78. May I be born again and again, and suffer thousands of miseries so that I may worship the only God that exists
  80. 79. I am going down to the plains to be harnessed once more for work.
  81. 80. The work of the Mother will not suffer; because it has been built and up to date maintained upon truth
  82. 81. I have no more faith in all this noise and humbug which brings no practical good.
  83. 82. Our Teacher and Lord was so original, and each one of us will have to be original or nothing.
  84. 83. I want a couple of tiger skins, if I can, to be sent to the Math as present to two European friends
  85. 84. I have no shame to beg of one person in the world and that is yourself.
  86. 85. For the last ten years or so I have not seen the Pujā of Shri Durgā in Bengal which is the great affair there.
  87. 86. Do not lose heart if anything befalls, the “Mother” is your protection.
  88. 87. There is only one element in life which is worth having at any cost, and it is love.
  89. 88. Ever praying for you and yours
  90. 89. Those institutions should be encouraged by which men advance in the path of freedom.
  91. 90. My last breath will be on the battlefield.
  92. 91. May you be protected from all dangers and may all blessings ever attend you!
  93. 92. The secret of life is not enjoyment, but education through experience.
  94. 93. Give my love to all. Don’t work too hard.
  95. 94. Kāli has taken two sacrifices; the cause has already two European martyrs. Now, it is going to rise up splendidly.
  96. 95. This life is full of shocks, but the effects pass away anyhow, that is the hope.
  97. 96. I am going to take my mother on pilgrimage next week.
  98. 97. I am going with my mother to Rameswaram
  99. 98. Everybody is praising Margot's Kali the Mother; but alas! they can't get a book to buy
  100. 99. I am ever so glad to hear that Bois is coming to Calcutta.
  101. 100. I am so glad you saw Mr. Tata and find him so strong and good.
  102. 101. Good solid work must wait.
  103. 102. I have just returned from my tour through East Bengal and Assam.
  104. 103. The subtle Hindu's gratitude runs through generations.
  105. 104. Know this for certain that my love can never cease.
  106. 105. Certainly it is very desirable to establish a connection between India and Japan.
  107. 106. Never mind, I am trying my best. Only my terribly poor health
  108. 107. I can’t even in imagination pay the immense debt of gratitude I owe you.
  109. 108. The snake represents mysticism; the sun knowledge; the worked up waters activity; the lotus love; the swan the soul in the midst of all.
  110. 109. I have dedicated you to the Mother. She is your shield, your guide.
  111. 110. Meeting or no meeting, I remain, Ever your loving brother
  112. 111. “Mother” knows best. That is all I know too.
  113. 112. The idea of taking a house for a whole year must be worked out with deliberation.
  114. 113. Lord Curzon was not allowed inside.
  115. 114. A total revolution has occurred in my mind about the relation of Buddhism and Neo-Hinduism
  116. 115. The reception Nivedita had in Madras was for the good of both Nivedita and Madras.
  117. 116. If there was any truth in Shri Ramakrishna, may He take you into His leading
  118. 117. Continue doing your work as the Lord guides. Why bother about the opinion of this man and that?
  119. 118. Give a little money—whatever is needed.
  120. 119. Write me in detail about the matter of the Nepal Minister.
  121. 120. Now I shall be relieved if I get the accounts.
  122. 121. How did you like Mayavati? Write me a line about it.
  123. 122. A great idea of quiet has come upon me.
  124. 123. A race must first cultivate a great respect for motherhood, through the sanctification and inviolability of marriage
Interviews
  1. Miracles
  2. An Indian Yogi in London
  3. India's Mission
  4. India and England
  5. Indian Missionary's Mission to England
  6. With the Swami Vivekananda at Madura
  7. The Abroad and the Problems at Home
  8. The Missionary Work of the First Hindu Sannyasin to the West
  9. Reawakening of Hinduism on a National Basis
  10. On Indian Women — Their Past, Present and Future
  11. On the Bounds of Hinduism
Notes from Lectures and Discourses
  1. On Karma-Yoga
  2. On Fanaticism
  3. Work Is Worship
  4. Work Without Motive
  5. Sadhanas or Preparations for Higher Life
  6. The Cosmos and the Self
  7. Who Is a Real Guru?
  8. On Art
  9. On Language
  10. The Sannyasin
  11. The Sannyasin and the Householder
  12. The Evils of Adhikarivada
  13. On Bhakti-Yoga
  14. Ishvara and Brahman
  15. On Jnana-Yoga
  16. The Cause of Illusion
  17. Evolution
  18. Buddhism and Vedanta
  19. On the Vedanta Philosophy
  20. Law and Freedom
  21. The Goal and Methods of Realisation
  22. World-Wide Unity
  23. The Aim of Raja-Yoga
Questions and Answers
  1. I. A Discussion
  2. II. At the Twentieth Century Club of Boston, U. S. A.
  3. III. At the Brooklyn Ethical Society, Brooklyn, U. S. A.
  4. IV. Selections from the Math Diary
  5. V. Yoga, Vairagya, Tapasya, Love
  6. VI. in Answer to Nivedita
  7. VII. Guru, Avatara, Yoga, Japa, Seva
Conversations and Dialogues
  1. I
  2. II
  3. III
  4. IV
  5. V
  6. VI
  7. VII
  8. VIII
  9. IX
  10. X
  11. XI
  12. XII
  13. XIII
  14. XIV
  15. XV
Sayings and Utterances
  1. Sayings and Utterances
Writings: Prose and Poems
  1. Reason, Faith and Love
  2. Six Sanskrit Mottoes
  3. The Message of Divine Wisdom
  4. The Belur Math: an Appeal
  5. The Advaita Ashrama, Himalayas
  6. The Ramakrishna Home of Service Varanasi: an Appeal
  7. Who Knows How Mother Plays!
  8. To the Fourth of July
  9. The East and the West