Swami Vivekananda
The Complete Works: Volume VPage 1 of 1

Conversations and Dialogues

V

MADHURA-BHAVA — PREMA — NAMAKIRTANA — ITS DANGER — BHAKTI TEMPERED WITH JNANA — A CURIOUS DREAM

[Shri Surendra Nath Sen — from private diary]

Monday, the 24th January, 1898.

In the afternoon I came again to Swamiji and saw quite a good gathering round him. The topic was the Madhura-Bhāva or the way of worshipping God as husband, as in vogue with some followers of Shri Chaitanya. His occasional bons mots were raising laughter, when someone remarked, “What is there to make so much fun of about the Lord’s doings? Do you think that he was not a great saint, and that he did not do everything for the good of humanity?”

Swamiji: Who is that? Should I poke fun at you then, my dear sir! You only see the fun of it, do you? And you, sir, do not see the lifelong struggle through which I have passed to mould this life after his burning ideal of renunciation of wealth and lust, and my endeavours to infuse that ideal into the people at large! Shri Chaitanya was a man of tremendous renunciation and had nothing to do with woman and carnal appetites. But, in later times, his disciples admitted women into their order, mixed indiscriminately with them in his name, and made an awful mess of the whole thing. And the ideal of love which the Lord exemplified in his life was perfectly selfless and bereft of any vestige of lust; that sexless love can never be the property of the masses. But the subsequent Vaishnava Gurus, instead of laying particular stress first on the aspect of renunciation in the Master’s life, bestowed all their zeal on preaching and infusing his ideal of love among the masses, and the consequence was that the common people could not grasp and assimilate that high ideal of divine love, and naturally made of it the worst form of love between man and woman.

Q. But, sir, he preached the name of the Lord Hari to all, even to the Chandālas; so why should not the common masses have a right to it?

Swamiji: I am talking not of his preaching, but of his great ideal of love—the Rādhā-prema,1 with which he used to remain intoxicated day and night, losing his individuality in Rādhā.

Q. Why may not that be made the common property of all?

Swamiji: Look at this nation and see what has been the outcome of such an attempt. Through the preaching of that love broadcast, the whole nation has become effeminate—a race of women! The whole of Orissa has been turned into a land of cowards; and Bengal, running after the Rādhā-prema, these past four hundred years, has almost lost all sense of manliness! The people are very good only at crying and weeping; that has become their national trait. Look at their literature, the sure index of a nation’s thoughts and ideas. Why, the refrain of the Bengali literature for these four hundred years is strung to that same tune of moaning and crying. It has failed to give birth to any poetry which breathes a true heroic spirit!

Q. Who are then truly entitled to possess that Prema (love)?

Swamiji: There can be no love so long as there is lust—even as speck of it, as it were, in the heart. None but men of great renunciation, none but mighty giants among men, have a right to that Love Divine. If that highest ideal of love is held out to the masses, it will indirectly tend to stimulate its worldly prototype which dominates the heart of man—for, meditating on love to God by thinking of oneself as His wife or beloved, one would very likely be thinking most of the time of one’s own wife—the result is too obvious to point out.

Q. Then is it impossible for householders to realise God through that path of love, worshipping God as one’s husband or lover and considering oneself as His spouse?

Swamiji: With a few exceptions; for ordinary householders it is impossible no doubt. And why lay so much stress on this delicate path, above all others? Are there no other relationships by which to worship God, except this Madhura idea of love? Why not follow the four other paths, and take the name of the Lord with all your heart? Let the heart be opened first, and all else will follow of itself. But know this for certain, that Prema cannot come while there is lust. Why not try first to get rid of carnal desires? You will say, “How is that possible? I am a householder.” Nonsense! Because one is a householder, does it mean that one should be a personification of incontinence, or that one has to live in marital relations all one’s life? And, after all, how unbecoming of a man to make of himself a woman, so that he may practise this Madhura love!

Q. True, sir. Singing God’s name in a party (Nāmakirtana) is an excellent help and gives one a joyous feeling. So say our scriptures, and so did Shri Chaitanya Deva also preach to the masses. When the Khole (drum) is played upon, it makes the heart leap with such a transport that one feels inclined to dance.

Swamiji: That is all right, but don’t think that Kirtana means dancing only. It means singing the glories of God, in whatever way that suits you. That vehement stirring up of feeling and that dancing of the Vaishnavas are good and very catching no doubt; but there is also a danger in practising them, from which you must save yourself. The danger lies here—in the reaction. On the one hand, the feelings are at once roused to the highest pitch, tears flow from the eyes, the head reels as it were under intoxication—on the other hand, as soon as the Sankirtan stops, that mass of feeling sinks down as precipitately as it rose. The higher the wave rises on the ocean, the lower it falls, with equal force. It is very difficult at that stage to contain oneself against the shock of reaction; unless one has proper discrimination, one is likely to succumb to the lower propensities of lust etc. I have noticed the same thing in America also. Many would go to church, pray with much devotion, sing with great feeling, and even burst into tears when hearing the sermons; but after coming out of church, they would have a great reaction and succumb to carnal tendencies.

Q. Then, sir, do instruct us which of the ideas preached by Shri Chaitanya we should take up as well suited to us, so that we may not fall into errors.

Swamiji: Worship God with Bhakti tempered with Jnāna. Keep the spirit of discrimination along with Bhakti. Besides this, gather from Shri Chaitanya, his heart, his loving kindness to all beings, his burning passion for God, and make his renunciation the ideal of your life.

The questioner now addressed the Swamiji with folded hands, “I beg your pardon, sir. Now I come to see you are right. Seeing you criticise in a playful mood the Madhura love of the Vaishnavas, I could not at first understand the drift of your remarks; hence I took exception to them.”

Swamiji: Well, look here, if we are to criticise at all, it is better to criticise God or God-men. If you abuse me I shall very likely get angry with you, and if I abuse you, you will try to retaliate. Isn’t it so? But God or God-men will never return evil for evil.

The gentleman now left, after bowing down at the feet of Swamiji. I have already said that such a gathering was an everyday occurrence when Swamiji used to stay in Calcutta. From early in the morning till eight or nine at night, men would flock to him at every hour of the day. This naturally occasioned much irregularity in the time of his taking his meals; so, many desiring to put a stop to this state of things, strongly advised Swamiji not to receive visitors except at appointed hours. But the loving heart of Swamiji, ever ready to go to any length to help others, was so melted with compassion at the sight of such a thirst for religion in the people, that in spite of ill health, he did not comply with any request of the kind. His only reply was, “They take so much trouble to come walking all the way from their homes, and can I, for the consideration of risking my health a little, sit here and not speak a few words to them?”

At about 4 p.m. the general conversation came to a close, and the gathering dispersed, except for a few gentlemen with whom Swamiji continued his talk on different subjects, such as England and America, and so on. In the course of conversation he said:

“I had a curious dream on my return voyage from England. While our ship was passing through the Mediterranean Sea, in my sleep, a very old and venerable-looking person, Rishi-like in appearance, stood before me and said, ‘Do ye come and effect our restoration. I am one of that ancient order of Therāputtas (Theraputae) which had its origin in the teachings of the Indian Rishis. The truths and ideals preached by us have been given out by Christians as taught by Jesus; but for the matter of that, there was no such personality by the name of Jesus ever born. Various evidences testifying to this fact will be brought to light by excavating here.’ ‘By excavating which place can those proofs and relics you speak of be found?’ I asked. The hoary-headed one, pointing to a locality in the vicinity of Turkey, said, ‘See here.’ Immediately after, I woke up, and at once rushed to the upper deck and asked the Captain, ‘What neighbourhod is the ship in just now?’ ‘Look yonder’, the Captain replied, ‘there is Turkey and the Island of Crete.’”

Was it but a dream, or is there anything in the above vision? Who knows!

Notes

  1. The divine love which Rādhā had towards Shri Krishna. ↩
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Contents

Epistles: First Series
  1. NOTE
  2. Be moral. Be brave.
  3. We must travel, we must go to foreign parts
  4. Calm and silent and steady work
  5. Feel for the miserable and look up for help — it shall come
  6. The Hindu must not give up his religion
  7. Do you know who is the real “Shakti-worshipper”?
  8. My whole ambition in life is to set in motion a machinery
  9. Up, up, my boys, we are sure to win!
  10. Whenever anyone of you is sick
  11. Appreciation or no appreciation, sleep not, slacken not.
  12. Fight on bravely! Life is short! Give it up to a great cause
  13. XII
  14. You will have to take charge of the whole movement, not as a leader, but as a servant
  15. Asians are the most charitable race in the world
  16. Wait, have patience, everything will come right in time
  17. XVI
  18. I care only for the Spirit—when that is right everything will be righted by itself
  19. Hope and do not despair
  20. XIX
  21. XX
  22. Look not at me, look to yourselves
  23. The life of Shri Ramakrishna was an extraordinary searchlight
  24. Preach Shri Ramakrishna. Pass the Cup that has satisfied your thirst. Preach Bhakti
  25. Remember that "Never one meets with evil who tries to do good"
  26. It is jealousy and want of combination which cause and perpetuate slavery
  27. XXVI
  28. Go to work, the rest will come
  29. I owe much to the Hale family
  30. Even after death I shall work for the good of the world
  31. Work for the idea, not the person
  32. 31. Coming and going is all pure delusion. The soul never comes nor goes
  33. 32. One cannot serve the God of Truth who leans upon somebody
  34. 33. Do not lose heart, do not lose faith in your Guru, do not lose faith in God
  35. 34. All’s well that ends well
  36. 35. Do not figure out big plans at first, but begin slowly, feel your ground, and proceed up and up
  37. 36. Hoping you the best dreams (for that is the only way to be happy)
  38. 37. Be cheerful.… Hold on to your own idea. Be the servant of all.
  39. 38. Love makes the whole universe as one's own home.
  40. 39. Be the servant of all, and do not try in the least to govern others.
  41. 40. Men are more valuable than all the wealth of the world.
  42. 41. A pestle must pound even if it goes to heaven.
  43. 42. Work on, my boy. Rome was not built in a day.
  44. 43. My disciples must not be cowards.
  45. 44. I wish you a life that will be like a torch to generations to come
  46. 45. May the Lord bless you and yours for ever and ever
  47. 46. May all happiness be yours for ever
  48. 47. Each work has to pass through these stages—ridicule, opposition, and then acceptance.
  49. 48. It is unnecessary to repeat my everlasting love and blessings for you and yours.
  50. 49. Truth is my God, the universe my country
  51. 50. Man is the greatest of all beings.
  52. 51. E. T. Sturdy
  53. 52. God and truth are the only politics in the world, everything else is trash.
  54. 53. So long as you are pure, and true to your principles, you will never fail.
  55. 54. Any other Hindu would have died if he had to work as hard as I have to.
  56. 55. Be perfectly pure in money dealings.
  57. 56. The whole life is a succession of dreams.
  58. 57. I am working a good deal now upon the cosmology and eschatology of the Vedānta
  59. 58. The dry, abstract Advaita must become living
  60. 59. The greatness of a teacher consists in the simplicity of his language.
  61. 60. So long as you have faith in your Guru, nothing will be able to obstruct your way.
  62. 61. Be obedient and eternally faithful to the cause of truth, humanity, and your country
  63. 62. The lotus is a symbol of regeneration.
  64. 63. Nothing can resist truth.
  65. 64. Work on! Hold on! Be brave! Dare anything and everything!
  66. 65. E.T. Sturdy
  67. 66. Work unto death—I am with you, and when I am gone, my spirit will work with you.
  68. 67. Work on with all energy.
  69. 68. I wish at least that a million Hindus had travelled all over the world!
  70. 69. We Hindus are so slow that when we have done a work, the opportunity has already passed away, and thus we are the losers.
  71. 70. We must remember that gratitude and hospitality are the peculiar characteristics of Indian humanity
  72. 71. Goodwin is an Englishman, through whose shorthand notes it has been possible for the pamphlets to be published.
  73. 72. You must not forget that my interests are international and not Indian alone
  74. 73. We have to learn that evil is destroyed by the growth of good.
  75. 74. Good motives, sincerity, and infinite love can conquer the world.
  76. 75. In Darjeeling I always felt that I was not the same man. Here I feel that I have no disease whatsoever
  77. 76. The word Vedas includes the three parts, the Samhitās, the Brāhmanas, and the Upanishads
  78. 77. For us, it is not to pity but to serve. Ours is not the feeling of compassion but of love
  79. 78. May I be born again and again, and suffer thousands of miseries so that I may worship the only God that exists
  80. 79. I am going down to the plains to be harnessed once more for work.
  81. 80. The work of the Mother will not suffer; because it has been built and up to date maintained upon truth
  82. 81. I have no more faith in all this noise and humbug which brings no practical good.
  83. 82. Our Teacher and Lord was so original, and each one of us will have to be original or nothing.
  84. 83. I want a couple of tiger skins, if I can, to be sent to the Math as present to two European friends
  85. 84. I have no shame to beg of one person in the world and that is yourself.
  86. 85. For the last ten years or so I have not seen the Pujā of Shri Durgā in Bengal which is the great affair there.
  87. 86. Do not lose heart if anything befalls, the “Mother” is your protection.
  88. 87. There is only one element in life which is worth having at any cost, and it is love.
  89. 88. Ever praying for you and yours
  90. 89. Those institutions should be encouraged by which men advance in the path of freedom.
  91. 90. My last breath will be on the battlefield.
  92. 91. May you be protected from all dangers and may all blessings ever attend you!
  93. 92. The secret of life is not enjoyment, but education through experience.
  94. 93. Give my love to all. Don’t work too hard.
  95. 94. Kāli has taken two sacrifices; the cause has already two European martyrs. Now, it is going to rise up splendidly.
  96. 95. This life is full of shocks, but the effects pass away anyhow, that is the hope.
  97. 96. I am going to take my mother on pilgrimage next week.
  98. 97. I am going with my mother to Rameswaram
  99. 98. Everybody is praising Margot's Kali the Mother; but alas! they can't get a book to buy
  100. 99. I am ever so glad to hear that Bois is coming to Calcutta.
  101. 100. I am so glad you saw Mr. Tata and find him so strong and good.
  102. 101. Good solid work must wait.
  103. 102. I have just returned from my tour through East Bengal and Assam.
  104. 103. The subtle Hindu's gratitude runs through generations.
  105. 104. Know this for certain that my love can never cease.
  106. 105. Certainly it is very desirable to establish a connection between India and Japan.
  107. 106. Never mind, I am trying my best. Only my terribly poor health
  108. 107. I can’t even in imagination pay the immense debt of gratitude I owe you.
  109. 108. The snake represents mysticism; the sun knowledge; the worked up waters activity; the lotus love; the swan the soul in the midst of all.
  110. 109. I have dedicated you to the Mother. She is your shield, your guide.
  111. 110. Meeting or no meeting, I remain, Ever your loving brother
  112. 111. “Mother” knows best. That is all I know too.
  113. 112. The idea of taking a house for a whole year must be worked out with deliberation.
  114. 113. Lord Curzon was not allowed inside.
  115. 114. A total revolution has occurred in my mind about the relation of Buddhism and Neo-Hinduism
  116. 115. The reception Nivedita had in Madras was for the good of both Nivedita and Madras.
  117. 116. If there was any truth in Shri Ramakrishna, may He take you into His leading
  118. 117. Continue doing your work as the Lord guides. Why bother about the opinion of this man and that?
  119. 118. Give a little money—whatever is needed.
  120. 119. Write me in detail about the matter of the Nepal Minister.
  121. 120. Now I shall be relieved if I get the accounts.
  122. 121. How did you like Mayavati? Write me a line about it.
  123. 122. A great idea of quiet has come upon me.
  124. 123. A race must first cultivate a great respect for motherhood, through the sanctification and inviolability of marriage
Interviews
  1. Miracles
  2. An Indian Yogi in London
  3. India's Mission
  4. India and England
  5. Indian Missionary's Mission to England
  6. With the Swami Vivekananda at Madura
  7. The Abroad and the Problems at Home
  8. The Missionary Work of the First Hindu Sannyasin to the West
  9. Reawakening of Hinduism on a National Basis
  10. On Indian Women — Their Past, Present and Future
  11. On the Bounds of Hinduism
Notes from Lectures and Discourses
  1. On Karma-Yoga
  2. On Fanaticism
  3. Work Is Worship
  4. Work Without Motive
  5. Sadhanas or Preparations for Higher Life
  6. The Cosmos and the Self
  7. Who Is a Real Guru?
  8. On Art
  9. On Language
  10. The Sannyasin
  11. The Sannyasin and the Householder
  12. The Evils of Adhikarivada
  13. On Bhakti-Yoga
  14. Ishvara and Brahman
  15. On Jnana-Yoga
  16. The Cause of Illusion
  17. Evolution
  18. Buddhism and Vedanta
  19. On the Vedanta Philosophy
  20. Law and Freedom
  21. The Goal and Methods of Realisation
  22. World-Wide Unity
  23. The Aim of Raja-Yoga
Questions and Answers
  1. I. A Discussion
  2. II. At the Twentieth Century Club of Boston, U. S. A.
  3. III. At the Brooklyn Ethical Society, Brooklyn, U. S. A.
  4. IV. Selections from the Math Diary
  5. V. Yoga, Vairagya, Tapasya, Love
  6. VI. in Answer to Nivedita
  7. VII. Guru, Avatara, Yoga, Japa, Seva
Conversations and Dialogues
  1. I
  2. II
  3. III
  4. IV
  5. V
  6. VI
  7. VII
  8. VIII
  9. IX
  10. X
  11. XI
  12. XII
  13. XIII
  14. XIV
  15. XV
Sayings and Utterances
  1. Sayings and Utterances
Writings: Prose and Poems
  1. Reason, Faith and Love
  2. Six Sanskrit Mottoes
  3. The Message of Divine Wisdom
  4. The Belur Math: an Appeal
  5. The Advaita Ashrama, Himalayas
  6. The Ramakrishna Home of Service Varanasi: an Appeal
  7. Who Knows How Mother Plays!
  8. To the Fourth of July
  9. The East and the West