Swami Vivekananda
The Complete Works: Volume VIIPage 1 of 1

Conversations and Dialogues: Miscellaneous

Fallen Women

(The Detroit Tribune, March 17, 1894)

“Lalun is a member of the most ancient profession in the world. Lilith was her very great-grandmamma, and that was before the days of Eve, as everyone knows. In the West people say rude things about Lalun’s profession and write lectures about it, and distribute the lectures to young persons in order that morality may be preserved. In the East, where the profession is hereditary, descending from mother to daughter, nobody writes lectures or takes any notice.”—RUDYARD KIPLING.

The story of which the sentences that precede this one are a paragraph, was written in India. They were written by Rudyard Kipling, from whom most of us have learned all that we definitely know about India, with the exception of the fact that India raises wheat enough to be a great competitor of our own farmers, that men work there for two cents a day and that women throw their babies into the Gangā, which is the sacred river of the country.

But Vive Kananda, since he came to this country, has exploded the story about the women of India feeding their babies to the alligators, and now he says that he never heard of Rudyard Kipling until he came to America, and that it is not proper in India to talk of such a profession as that of Lalun, out of which Mr. Kipling has made one of his most delightful and instructive tales.

“In India,” said Kananda yesterday, “we do not discuss such things. No one ever speaks of those unfortunate women. When a woman is discovered to be unchaste in India, she is hurled out from her caste. No one thereafter can touch or speak to her. If she went into the house, they would take up and clean the carpets and wash the walls she breathed against. No one can have anything to do with such a person. There are no women who are not virtuous in Indian society. It is not at all as it is in this country. Here there are bad women living side by side with virtuous women in your society. One cannot know who is bad and who is good in America. But in India once a woman slips, she is an outcast for ever—she and her children, sons and daughters. It is terrible, I admit, but it keeps society pure.”

“How about the men?” was asked. “Does the same rule hold in regard to them? Are they outcast when they are proven to be unchaste?”

“Oh, no. It is quite different with them. It would be so, perhaps, if they could be found out. But the men move about. They can go from place to place. It is not possible to discover them. The women are shut up in the house. They are certainly discovered if they do anything wrong. And when they are discovered, they are thrown out. Nothing can save them. Sometimes it is very hard when a father has to give up his daughter or a husband his wife. But if they do not give them up, they will be banished with them too. It is very different in this country. Women cannot go about there and make associations as they do here. It is very terrible, but it makes society pure.

“I think that unchastity is the one great sin of your country. It must be so, there is so much luxury here. A poor girl would sell herself for a new bonnet. It must be so where there is so much luxury.”

Mr. Kipling says this about Lalun and her profession:

“Lalun’s real husband, for even ladies of Lalun’s profession have husbands in the East, was a great, big jujube tree. Her mama, who had married a fig, spent ten thousand rupees on Lalun’s wedding, which was blessed by forty-seven clergymen of mama’s church, and distributed 5,000 rupees in charity to the poor. And that was a custom of the land.”

In India when a woman is unfaithful to her husband she loses her caste, but none of her civil or religious rights. She can still own property and the temples are still open to her.

‘Yes,” said Kananda, “a bad woman is not allowed to marry. She cannot marry anyone without their being an outcast like herself, so she marries a tree, or sometimes a sword. It is the custom. Sometimes these women grow very rich and become very charitable, but they can never regain their caste. In the interior towns, where they still adhere to the old customs, she cannot ride in a carriage, no matter how wealthy she may be; the best that she is allowed is a pair of bullocks. And then in India she has to wear a dress of her own, so that she can be distinguished. You can see these people going by, but no one ever speaks to them. The greatest number of these women is in the cities. A good many of them are Jews too, but they all have different quarters of the cities, you know. They all live apart. It is a singular thing that, bad as they are, wretched as some of these women are, they will not admit a Christian lover. They will not eat with them or touch them—the `omnivorous barbarians’, as they call them. They call them that because they eat everything. Do you know what that disease, the unspeakable disease, is called in India? It is called `Bad Faringan’, which means `the Christian disease’. It was the Christian that brought it into India.

“Has there been any attempt in India to solve this question? Is it a public question the way it is in America?”

“No, there has been very little done in India. There is a great field for women missionaries if they would convert prostitutes in India. They do nothing in India—very little. There is one sect, the Veshnava [Vaishnava]1, who try to reclaim these women. This is a religious sect. I think about 90 per cent [?] of all prostitutes belong to this sect. This sect does not believe in caste and they go everywhere without reference to caste. There are certain temples, as the temple of Jagatnot [Jagannāth], where there is no caste. Everybody who goes into that town takes off his caste while he is there, because that is holy ground and everything is supposed to be pure there. When he goes outside, he resumes it again, for caste is a mere worldly thing. You know some of the castes are so particular that they will not eat any food unless it is prepared by themselves. They will not touch any one outside their caste. But in the city they all live together. This is the only sect in India that makes proselytes. It makes everybody a member of its church. It goes into the Himalayas and converts the wild men. You perhaps did not know that there were wild men in India. Yes, there are. They dwell at the foot of the Himalayas.”

“Is there any ceremony by which a woman is declared unchaste, a civil process?” Kananda was asked.

“No, it is not a civil process. It is just custom. Sometimes there is a formal ceremony and sometimes there is not. They simply make pariahs of them. When any woman is suspected sometimes they get together and give her a sort of trial, and if it is decided that she is guilty, then a note is sent around to all the other members of the caste, and she is banished.

“Mind you, he exclaimed, “I do not mean to say that this is a solution of the question. The custom is terribly rigid. But you have no solution of the question, either. It is a terrible thing. It is a great wrong of the Western world.”

Notes

  1. Words in square brackets are ours.—Ed. ↩
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Contents

Inspired Talks
  1. Inspired Talks: Wednesday, June 19
  2. Inspired Talks: Sunday, June 23
  3. Inspired Talks: Monday, June 24
  4. Inspired Talks: Tuesday, June 25
  5. Inspired Talks: Wednesday, June 26
  6. Inspired Talks: Thursday, June 27
  7. Inspired Talks: Friday, June 28
  8. Inspired Talks: Saturday, June 29
  9. Inspired Talks: Sunday, June 30
  10. Inspired Talks: Monday, July 1
  11. Inspired Talks: Tuesday, July 2
  12. Inspired Talks: Wednesday, July 3
  13. Inspired Talks: Friday, July 5
  14. Inspired Talks: Saturday, July 6
  15. Inspired Talks: Sunday, July 7
  16. Inspired Talks: Monday, July 8
  17. Inspired Talks: Tuesday, July 9
  18. Inspired Talks: Wednesday, July 10
  19. Inspired Talks: Thursday, July 11
  20. Inspired Talks: Friday, July 12
  21. Inspired Talks: Saturday, July 13
  22. Inspired Talks: Sunday, July 14
  23. Inspired Talks: Monday, July 15
  24. Inspired Talks: Tuesday, July 16
  25. Inspired Talks: Wednesday, July 17
  26. Inspired Talks: Thursday, July 18
  27. Inspired Talks: Friday, July 19
  28. Inspired Talks: Saturday, July 20
  29. Inspired Talks: Sunday, July 21
  30. Inspired Talks: Tuesday, July 23
  31. Inspired Talks: Wednesday, July 24
  32. Inspired Talks: Thursday, July 25
  33. Inspired Talks: Friday, July 26
  34. Inspired Talks: Saturday, July 27
  35. Inspired Talks: Sunday, July 28
  36. Inspired Talks: Monday, July 29
  37. Inspired Talks: Tuesday, July 30
  38. Inspired Talks: Wednesday, July 31
  39. Inspired Talks: Thursday, August 1
  40. Inspired Talks: Friday, August 2
  41. Inspired Talks: Saturday, August 3
  42. Inspired Talks: Sunday, August 4
  43. Inspired Talks: Monday, August 5
  44. Inspired Talks: Tuesday, August 6
Conversations and Dialogues: Shri Sharat Chandra Chakravarty
  1. 1. Each Hindu, I say, is a brother to every other
  2. 2. Always talk and hear and reason about this Ātman.
  3. 3. He who is truly and sincerely reliant on the Lord goes beyond all idea of the duality of good and bad.
  4. 4. Since visiting Amarnāth, I feel as if Shiva is sitting on my head for twenty-four hours and would not come down.
  5. 5. Try to manifest this Ātman, and you will see your intellect penetrating into all subjects.
  6. 6. You have only got to know that you are Eternal Brahman.
  7. 7. You have locked up your intelligence, thrown away your inherited wealth to others, and roam about crying piteously for food.
  8. 8. I am of opinion that the conclusion of the ancient Indian philosophers is the last word on the causes of evolution.
  9. 9. “नायमात्मा बलहीनेन लभ्य:—This Ātman cannot be attained by the weak.
  10. 10. Negative thoughts weaken men.
  11. 11. I am ready to undergo a hundred thousand rebirths to train up a single man.
  12. 12. Laziness, meanness, and hypocrisy have covered the whole length and breadth of the country.
  13. 13. Now is wanted—as said in the Gitā by the Lord—intense Karma-Yoga
  14. 14. Nāg Mahāshaya has lost himself in the Divine, his body-consciousness has vanished altogether.
  15. 15. Shri Ramakrishna used to deprecate lukewarmness in spiritual attainments
  16. 16. Shri Ramakrishna was born to vivify all branches of art and culture in this country.
  17. 17. The few days that the body lasts, I will work for you. I shall die in harness.
  18. 18. As far as you can, you must go on doing good work.
  19. 19. Come what may, I shall not forget my duty, whether the world remains or dissolves—these are the words of a great hero.
  20. 20. This Kāli is Brahman in manifestation.
  21. 21. Nothing good in the world becomes fruitless, be it work or thought.
  22. 22. The philosophic portion of the Upanishads has remained unchanged up till now
  23. 23. Always remember that renunciation is the root idea.
  24. 24. God is present in every Jiva; there is no other God besides that.
  25. 25. Real monasticism is not easy to attain. There is no order of life so rigorous as this.
  26. 26. The gift of knowledge is the highest gift in the world.
  27. 27. Shri Ramakrishna was a wonderful gardener.
  28. 28. Without drinking the water of mother Gangā, a sweet, musical voice is not acquired.
  29. 29. Always try to get absorbed in the eternally present Ātman.
Conversations and Dialogues: Shri Priya Nath Sinha
  1. 30. Self-sacrifice, indeed, is the basis of all civilisation.
  2. 31. This idea must be preached to everyone—work, work, endless work—without looking at results,
Conversations and Dialogues: Miscellaneous
  1. 32. Vengeance of History
  2. Religion, Civilisation, And Miracles (The Appeal-Avalanche )
  3. Religion, Civilisation, and Miracles
  4. Religious Harmony
  5. Fallen Women
Translation of Writings
  1. Note
  2. I. Memoirs of European Travel
  3. II. Memoirs of European Travel
  4. III. Memoirs of European Travel-Addenda
Notes of Class Talks and Lectures
  1. On Art
  2. On Music
  3. On Mantra And Mantra-Chaitanya
  4. On Conceptions Of Godhead
  5. On Food
  6. On Sannyasa And Family Life
  7. On Questioning The Competency Of The Guru
  8. Shri Ramakrishna: The Significance Of His Life And Teachings
  9. On Shri Ramakrishna And His Views
  10. Shri Ramakrishna: The Nation's Ideal
Notes of Lectures
  1. Mercenaries In Religion
  2. The Destiny Of Man
  3. Reincarnation
  4. Comparative Theology
  5. Buddhism, The Religion Of The Light Of Asia
  6. The Science Of Yoga
Epistles: Third Series
  1. NOTE
  2. 1. Such courage is impossible in a lying and unchaste woman.
  3. 2. The doctor is a noble soul, and they have got a brotherhood
  4. 3. Of the few places I have recently visited, this is the healthiest.
  5. 4. May the Lord ordain that your son becomes a man, and never a coward!
  6. 5. Whoever takes the name of Ramakrishna, know him to be your Guru
  7. 6. Any shortcoming in adopting remedial measures is to be considered as idleness—it is a fault and a guilt.
  8. 7. How, O man, dost thou want satisfaction in such a world!
  9. 8. You are a real Mahātmā (a great soul) and Mrs. Wright is nonpareil.
  10. 9. All creeds do come from Thee; The Vedas, Bible, and Koran bold Sing Thee in harmony.
  11. 10. He who was guiding me on the snow tops of the Himalayas and the burning plains of India is here to help me and guide me.
  12. 11. Just now I am lecturing about Chicago—and am doing as I think very well
  13. 12. America is the only place where there is a chance of success for everything.
  14. 13. Dr. Momerie came to the Parliament in spite of the Archbishop of Canterbury’s denouncing of the Parliament of Religions.
  15. 14. May your feet never touch the mud and dirt of this terrible world
  16. 15. All religions are sacred to me.
  17. 16. Your love and noble heart can convert the stone into down.
  18. 17. The Lord is great, none can injure His children.
  19. 18. I am a vegetarian …, because I prefer it when I can get it.
  20. 19. It is unnecessary for me to say that I will be very happy to do as you say
  21. 20. The way to God is the opposite to that of the world.
  22. 21. I am bound, my dear friend, to give you every satisfaction of my being a genuine Sannyāsin, but to you alone.
  23. 22. This is a queer place—this world of ours.
  24. 23. Keeping aloof from the community of nations is the only cause for the downfall of India.
  25. 24. May you have exceeding love for one another among yourselves
  26. 25. Be the servant if you will rule. That is the real secret.
  27. 26. It is character that can cleave through adamantine walls of difficulties. Bear this in mind.
  28. 27. If you have the spirit within, you will never fail to attract others.
  29. 28. It is a great work to bring this world into a spirit of sympathy with each other
  30. 29. Teaching has become a part of my life, as necessary to my life as eating or breathing.
  31. 30. The city is hot in summer, exactly like Calcutta.
  32. 31. You must always remember that you are addressing the whole world, not India alone
  33. 32. Obedience is the first duty
  34. 33. The eternal, the infinite, the omnipresent, the omniscient is a principle, not a person.
  35. 34. Our whole country is steeped in Tamas, and nothing but that.
  36. 35. This is the world my brother—this illusion of Māyā—the Lord alone is true.
  37. 36. I only say, awake, awake!
  38. 37. No one of the types we call religious ought to die
  39. 38. It is this yearning that gradually brings on a concentration of the mind on the eternal Brahman.
  40. 39. India is already Ramakrishna’s whether I live a few years more or not.
  41. 40. What we want are brave young men who will work, not tomfools.
  42. 41. Lord bless you for your great self-sacrifice for the poor Indians.
  43. 42. It is absolutely necessary to stand on one’s own feet.
  44. 43. Love stops not for questions of birth. Nor the hungry man for stale food.
  45. 44. Whosoever of you have given me a coat? Whosoever a cigar? Whosoever a bit of fish or flesh?
  46. 45. Miss Noble is doing very well here, and working her way out.
  47. 46. It is a grand sight to see a giant pine struggling against a cyclone. Is it not?
  48. 47. It is the Saviour who should “go his way rejoicing, and not the saved”.
  49. 48. Seeing such souls here and there repays for all the nonsense of this life.
  50. 49. I am eternally thankful to you for all your kindness
  51. 50. I do not mind at all whether people come round to help me or not
  52. 51. It is human nature to ask for more favours (now that they have come) where it gets from.
  53. 52. I just want a bit of peace badly—pray for me.
  54. 53. Eternal faith in Self, in all The sight Divine in great in small